How I Became a Perfumer Podcast

№3 – Smells Like Wellness: Nordic Organic Fair Experience

• Neparfumer • Season 1 • Episode 3

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Join Daniel and Tanya as they dive into the lively scene of the Nordic Organic Fair on this special episode. Does the fair, with 450 companies participating, live up to Tanya's olfactory expectations?

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Ever dreamt about going to space? Connect with Tanya!

• https://www.instagram.com/neparfumer/
• https://www.coachmironova.com/


Alright! Hi, here we are. So yeah, just to quickly introduce myself because I'm pretty sure nobody knows me yet on this podcast. My name is Daniel Orlov. I'm a software engineer and wellness enthusiast. There are more things to tell, but I'll stick to this for now. And yeah, I'm excited to hear more about what you experienced today on the Nordic fair and what's the official name? It's... Nordic organic food fair plus natural beauty show plus eco living Scandinavia so like three runs in one I'm all ears well For those who haven't been listening to us previously, my name is Tanya Mironova. I'm an Art Factory Art Educator, wellness enthusiast as well as Daniel and someone who has just recently moved to Denmark from lovely Netherlands. It's lovely. The lovely Netherlands, I mean like where should we put article? Yeah, probably. I've just returned two hours ago from a very special event, very special to all the fragrance lovers and wellness enthusiasts and everyone is around. What is so special about it is that it's probably one of a kind, really wellness enriched exhibitions out there. And this particular event is organized, believe, by the UK company, though it's conducted in Malmo. You were saying that it's quite unique and I totally agree with it because when we think about events like this, we probably picture like a fitness festival like events or maybe just eco green kind of nature friendly events, but those are quite separate. Like the fitness one in Europe, I obviously think about the one in Cologne or Köln, how we want to call it. But that's very fitness focused and if you look at the rooster it's like bodybuilders all over the place and what to eat and what to put in your body and all this different stuff. So not really, I'd say, general public oriented. So I want to hear more for now. Yeah, so first of all, the fragrance community probably knows there are a major events in their field. Of course, when you are thinking about fragrances, you think about Texans in Milan or Italy or Pitti Fragrance, well, was a mix of French and Italian, so Pitti Fragrance, which is held in Florence. There are also biennial events like the World Perfumery Congress, the next one is going to be in Switzerland, or smaller ones, but still very lovely to join. Probably it's like a Barcelona faction week, which is currently called Barcelona Faction Congress. Again, some very neat events like the one which my friend Sofia called Eric, with her team conducting right now, preparing right now in Amsterdam. This one is for the Odeuropa project, but general public knows probably only about the first two. mostly about exxon's, since like visitors can go there freely and experience all sorts of smells. But for me personally and for the podcast listeners, I believe it's very important to know that fragrances and smells, they're just so different depending on the way they are composed, they're used, they are produced and yeah, many more words ending with ED. But for me, joining the exhibition which really shares the holistic approach was something I've been considering for quite a while. And I knew about the Nordic Fair, which is like the official name is in Swedish it's going to be the word Mesa. So like an example. immediately picture, you know, the ladies singing gospel from the American movies. I assume there were none of them there. No, not this time. This event, it really consists of a few parts, but all of the parts are really united by the idea of wellness, well-being, and I would say holistic approach. You may wonder what role do fragrances play here, and I thought I should go and see how people in this type of environment would think about smells. the types of fragrance products would be there. Officially it's like a food fair and a beauty show. Technically the whole place, which is very lovely, it's not that huge as you might imagine, since our lovely software engineer brought me like two months ago to a very huge techno... I would love you to bring me to techno events, but no, it was a tech event. Yeah, pretty close. I mean, not so much on the music side. And there was... I don't really recall the name already, but there was... was... Okay, so you remember better. That's good. It was a big one with multiple plenary sessions held across the huge pavilion. But I guess this is more like a cozy Scandinavian style. Well, cause it definitely, especially since we have food finally, not like in tech expo and Yeah, I mean, sorry for that. We also have fragrance products to talk about and to smell, so those are different. But to me the first very big difference was that when you leave the train station, and in my case it was station Hulie in Malmo, for the Russian speaking listeners you might hear some weird sounds here, but for all of you it's just another station before you reach Malmo Central. And when you leave the station, you just go basically to Malmo Messon. And I frankly was expecting something huge, but Malmö Messe is not that huge building and it didn't have any banners. You just enter the place and you could hear the music. I was about to say to see the music because it's like hear the smells. So see the music. I believe it's also appropriate. Well, you enter the place and I suppose around 70 % is dedicated to either food or food or supplements, would call them like a category which we are very close to food and around 30 % or so is dedicated to totally different things which include beauty products and fragrances. Uh-huh. Okay, so a food-centric event. Even though, as I was saying in the beginning, are like three events conducted simultaneously, but food is central. Yeah, like the eco-living part, which is, I would say it's not a separate event. It's the name of everything what was going on, like eco-living and inside the eco-living was food and beauty. A little bit, not something you know if you've never been to this place, you expect like eco-living. I hear eco-living, I think about sofas made from like some nature materials. So, eco-living is in my head is more about that kind of stuff, but for the experience, no, you shouldn't be expecting something like that. Got it. So you mentioned you've entered and then there's like 70 % food. Yes, so you could imagine me vegan on at this point and you know that perfectly I'm a very specific diet even more specific than just being vegan. So yeah apart from that I'm also sugar-free and Apart from that I'm also on a low histamine diet with controlled I want to just A group like that sounds like this being controlled by the deitition. I'm the control group by the way. We eat the same food and then we see what happens. Sometimes the control group fails more than you do like the case with cinnamon. But yeah, let's not get into this. There are too many details, but for all of you, you are into the wellness from the food perspective, you will feel like you've eventually entered the place which has everything you've ever wanted, like everything you've ever needed. And of course, like you think, I should go to the fragrance section, to the beauty products and immediately start interacting there since I'm here for the fragrance talks. But then you just see like sugar-free confiture. Like the French one. And I tried the abricot one. Or you see hemp chips from a Finnish company. Yeah, I I would be expecting it from a Dutch company, but okay, I let that pass. For the Danish comp... for the Dutch companies again, like since we've just moved, there are Dutch companies, the two companies which I've personally been buying products from, like the one which has different seeds spreads and another one which has chocolate without added sugar, but not like 100 % chocolate, which some people couldn't tolerate because of the taste. another one, a company from Breda. I think it's Breda. spread out It's halfway from the Hague down to Belgium. That probably doesn't ring a bell, but just for you to know, there is some lovely chocolate makers. A very good one because the chocolate doesn't have any sweeteners but does have a very sweet chocolatey taste. They've launched a new taste at Pecan. So what was the first thing you did? First thing after a very weird experience of trying to check out with my race record, which is the Danish travel card and I was expecting that I could easily do that at this Huli station. I hope that's not the name, unless, if it is, I'm going to be laughing every time. It's like, if I were to translate it, there would be like an F word in it for the Russian speakers. So yeah. Huli station I was actually thinking like Huli I couldn't find a place to check out, though it was supposed to be there. So after this a little bit stressful experience when I entered the place eventually I first heard like okay like press participants could go to a panel to listen to like a talk about general trends from organic Sweden, organic Denmark, organic Finland, organic Iceland and organic Norway. I thought, I will go there and just like relax, do my breathing exercises and be like in my best spirits and of course learn something. Yes. Well, everyone is so lovely. I mean, in this exhibition, you just feel welcomed by everyone because probably people who work actually in this field... or have any connection to that, they just really think differently than people who don't. Hmm, mean like they mostly want people who work in the no added sugars like sweets. Yeah, they actually care a lot about it. Yeah, because you couldn't be doing that if you don't care about the planet. It couldn't be doing that if you don't think about future generations. And this type of thinking is probably only attached or is only organic to people who care about having organic products. And when you listen to them talking about like what they want to achieve, what are the trends, you of course feel very different than when you go to even the most fragrance talk from all fragrance talks, but which is about money eventually. Yeah, I would imagine because I assumed the market share is still relatively low and the ability to gain traction from the general public is still limited by the habits because you don't think about eating something sweet without sugar just because... yeah. That's how generations since I think it was the beginning of the last century when the sugar was introduced in mass quantities, the refined sugar, when basically the obesity took off as a thing. But yeah, so what are the trends? What did you like the most from what you've heard? I there were some really sad things to hear, since in the last year it was a drop in the organic share of the market. Generally it wasn't like an event where they, as a very lovely Danish representative said, we couldn't be really bragging with any success right now, because it's not the case. Did anyone mention the thoughts? What are the reasons behind the shrinking share of the organic food in the market? Well, unfortunately, it's all financially related. So it's not that customers don't want organic products. Customers do want and are very informed. But still, it's the case just simply money-wise. So the inflation is hitting the households and they are opting out of the more eco-friendly and organic products, switching to the more affordable ones. Yes, right. Especially when they can. I mean, there are, I suppose, types of products which you buy rarely and then you could, there you could concentrate on them being really highly organic or something. And it's more, probably it's more common for the cosmetics or beauty market. And it's not that common for like everyday purchases, like, I don't know, like food. And this was a little bit upsetting though. I believe it's gonna be, there will be a change, kinda soon. And a very lovely thing I've heard from the Danish representative from the organic Denmark. Since Denmark is the first European country where the government has made a program on plant-based food development. Probably heard about it. and yeah, we would love to hear what they want to do. As it begins. Yeah, hello. Did we mention we are vegans? like almost meme-like behavior. are like 20 minutes into recording or something. To the fragrances, finally. Smells... But without this context it's kind of hard to start. It's like I couldn't come and say like, oh, hello, I smell this and that on the organic, Nordic organic show. Like... Like, okay, yeah. I could also go to a local shop and do the same. It's different. I will try to follow some chronological time. Like the order of discovery that you... Okay. It seems like even at these kind of exhibitions, have people with absolutely different level of knowledge when it comes to them fragrances and their relation to health. So you could see a person who is promoting aromatherapy right now with essential oils and specific devices. Or you could see people who are saying that In the future they are planning to completely eliminate fragrances, though they are natural and organic in their products, just because they don't want to irritate customers and customers don't really want fragrances anymore in product. Right. Well, mean, kind of the reason why I think and it's obviously, just my take on that because the market share for those who'd want aromatherapy still is, it exists. exists. Dennis, know, so polar compared to completely forbidding any or maybe it's not forbidden it's like a self-imposed ban of any potential allergens. But it's also interesting, it was interesting for me, since there were representatives for instance for the certification bodies and they were saying like one type of things. Other people like, it's very interesting that we think that allergens is only a bad thing, while I believe there are many more bad things health related which you could find in a beauty product. Allergens... Attested differently in many ways in different categories of products for instance if it's a product which is to stay on your body There should be one percentage of allergens if it's a product which is to be rinsed off. It's different percent of allergens possible, but it's again everything we've been talking about that is that if you have an allergy and You use many products with allergens. You will probably see it Yeah. And this is the beauty of, in my perspective, the beauty of beauty products, of being able to see allergens actually. You will see the rash reaction on your skin. Yeah, I mean because you put it on your body and it's not necessarily always the case with all the fragrances unless you actually do put it on your body then it's very or at least like much easier to see the reaction if any. Right. The problem is that, of course, if you lay on many products, then it's difficult to decide which was the one causing allergy or it is a combination of them, because now you've exceeded some threshold and that's where you get. However, I see the problem a little bit differently, since this low histamine diet, it actually was an eye-opening experience from the perspective that you might not have allergy to a particular product. and you will not see it immediately. But you could get something inside of you, which will eventually make you feel like you want to sleep, or make you feel like a little bit foggy in your head, or make you feel tingling around your mouth, though you just might feel strange, but it's not an allergy from a standard perspective. Yeah, it's not the one that you know, like you have a friend that says like, I'm allergic to that because if they eat something or if they touch something, they actually can be like in a life threatening situation. Yeah, whatever is available at the moment. Exactly. And I believe with fragrances we are also having this kind of situation where it's on the one hand it's even good if you could see your allergy to be honest in my perspective because it's much worse than you couldn't see it, you couldn't feel it but inside of you something is going wrong and this is something where I believe saying that, well, naturals are causing allergies or synthetics are causing allergies. Well, we have much bigger problems in my perspective since we are also inhaling all this stuff. Yeah, right. And then this is, I think, is not very widely tested, if I'm correct. if any how. This was too much already and I didn't even mention the lovely participants is that you could use a lovely app which is developed I suppose by the French developers it's called INCA, INCA Beauty. I-N-C-I, beauty. Yeah. Yeah, we'll leave a link in the description and you could at least get some idea of what could be in a beauty product and see if fragrance is the worst thing which could be happening there. Yeah, or if it's actually the safest one because allergens and you know, when you look at the bottom of your favorite perfume or maybe on the side or on a package, then you see that all the different already known allergens are over there. But some things that you might not even recognize and as potentially dangerous for your health are also there. Yeah, and they don't look like allergens because it's just a normal thing to have all petrochemicals in once and all cancer organic products in your cream and don't worry about it. all the hormone disruptors. And endocrine disruptors. Yeah, representing the tech side of the podcast, gotta say that even though the app is not the most sophisticated one, it does the job brilliantly. even if your favorite product is not on the list, can still for free just take a picture of the ingredients and then send it the away and I assume they run some image recognition on top of it and after that recognize the ingredients and give you the like an overview from zero to twelve to twenty sorry how bad is your product basically yeah as a result of those checks that we had to discontinue using some of the product but I guess it's only for the better at least from the perspective of the outcome. So something to consider or to do on a boring winter evening if you want to get rid of half of the things that you own. But you know in this event, in today's event, the opening, eye-opening for me was a very interesting speech from Mark Smith. He represented, he's a doctor, Mark Smith, very importantly, because I know that people don't like if you don't use doctor. Right, Okay, Dr. Smith. Yeah, so the doctor Smith from the certification body NETTU. I hope I pronounced it correct. It's like nature but true with it. Okay, so it would probably be corrected by Google. Well, he said that endocrine disruptors is sort of, you know, like a previous line of... That's interesting. Now what? We've just arrived in the Green Disruptus, just found this application. And Dr. Smith already told us that, yeah, it's the yesterdays. Like yeah, really the new one and as far as I got it the European Union is now I've developed in some directive on that of just developed And it's about a different substance Different type of problem. I would say okay called fuss That is P F A S. And now I will try to read it. Per and polyfluoroclil... No. Per and polyfluoralkyl. alkyl alkyl sorry my bad I think it's all killed, It's very important that alkyl and alkyl, our chemistry friends will not allow us to that. please help us out, the chemistry friends. So like substances is the last one. So technically we are speaking about other types of chemicals, which have a second name according to Dr. Smith is the forever chemicals. Probably they are just like living forever either in nature or in your body. I don't know where they do. I have not yet had a chance to explore the topic, but I just wanted to share that. If you think you're on the edge with endocrine disruptors, no, it's PFAS, which are on the edge probably. Right, okay, thank you for that and thank you Dr. Smith for sharing this. I guess we'll probably follow up on the topic when we'll research that better, but if you find something interesting, please send it our way as well. might have Dr. Smith later on in the podcast because I was when I was listening to him it's like you know there are absolutely different as I've said genres but like different categories of triggered, it's just a joke about... I'm not sure if it's only Russian meme or if it's outside of just the Russian part of the internet, but there is this joke about there are only two genders, which basically contradicts the gender theory, but that's why we say that. Right. And I believe like the amount of genres right now is much bigger than the amount of... of PFAS known to also. That is true. definitely and so the thing for me was that on the one hand like you know one building relatively small place. like Dr. Smith talking about things which we couldn't even pronounce and saying that this is actually the thing and it's going to be the next thing to talk about and the next thing to introduce and the next thing to discuss and to label etc etc. And on the other hand you have people like, I don't know, like a French perfumery company And you approach them and ask like, guys, you are probably, the fragrances are organic, aren't they? And they're like, no. And they are like, and then you say, probably like the essential oils you use are organic. No, not really. So what is organic? well, we have this cream, which is organic. Alright, okay, so that's a special cream we have that that. Okay, I don't have a good joke about it. So I'll just shut up. So really, even me, I mean, being in the field for quite a while, I have things I don't know about. Like, at all. And that's the beauty of participating in the beauty events, pun intended, but also it's the problem when you think about topic that you know everything about, for instance, so you think you know everything about, then you just have somebody saying like, and do crin disruptors? No, just like... It's problem of course, but we are now aiming at solving a different issue. Right. was there anything like we've been discussing the things that Dr. Smith shared with us and the trends in the food industry, was there anything that you found particular striking or unusual in the fragrance part of the exhibition? I remember it was relatively small compared to the food one, but anything else you would like to share? Well, unfortunately there were no panels like that on particular fragrances. You know, it's a thing that you don't consider fragrance as a very important specific part of the discussion. There haven't been any panels on that. Probably it's something to do next year because the producers, like if you come individually and you ask, do you use any fragrances in your products, which and why? Everyone is very open to discussion since smells is something people are very, very like to discuss. If we're talking about fragrances in wellness products, then people either try to stick to something which looks like natural fragrances or it is a natural fragrance or not use fragrances at all. I believe those two don't actually meet. Is that because of the application, like how people use wellness products? Is it because of the clientele that is more focused on the less unknowns you put in your body, the better? Or what do you think is the reason? It seems to me that we are so sensitive now to many products because we live in the environment which made us to be very sensitive about things like it's loud, it's sometimes overcrowded, it's like a lot and you just want to have less, like less is better actually and I think this is part of the fragrance wellness products agenda. Mm-hmm. But it's my idea on that and I believe probably next year having a panel on that or having a talk on that would be very lovely and beneficial. And it will be interesting to hear the opinions of the founders why they don't want to use fragrances in their products. Switching gears, because I believe we need more professionals on that and we also need more panels on that. I just wanted to share with you a few products I've tried, had a look at, and we'll probably unpack into some of them right now. Okay, so what do we have? Great. So from the Organic Iceland booth I got a few lovely products. I was very, very surprised. started, I mean, of course, like every booth when it comes to a country, it has a few exhibitors inside of it. And there were a few products different. And one of the types of the products were essential oils from the pine. Mm. pines but those are different types of pines. First Like a small one, probably. Like a very very small pine, because I don't think Iceland is famous for giant pine trees. But I actually adore how they try to tell me about the geography of Iceland since I've been there once. They say that there is a head and there is a tail, like Swedish kicks in. So the products I have are from the head. And we've been discussing that they have not too far from them. just technically I couldn't reach the head when I was in Iceland because it was May and it was already very snowy. Not already, it was still very snowy. And the roads were blocked. So you just couldn't go there. And they have a very lovely company which started as a family business. So the name for it is Willi May. I'm very sorry if I pronounce it not correctly. However, the thing is that the lady, Anna, she's very lovely. She started producing bombs for the muscle relief pain just because she needed it. And then other people approached her. And you know, like the rest is history. She has her brand. And yeah, it's a very lovely company, extremely lovely people. And since the Icelandic community is very tight, they know everything what is going on where, and for this pine essential oil. thing. They didn't have the representative, however I smelled the pines and those two types I smelled were very different from all the pines I smelled previously, Pine Essential Wallace of course. yeah, they just, if somebody in Iceland got a product, they try to cooperate and make a product on that. I really like the community. The products I have in my hands right now, those are baby bottom charm, wound charm, lip charm and muscle and joint charm. like how it looks like they're named after someone, so it says Sara Kaldur. So is she the creator or do they all have the names on them? Okay. Or maybe I'm assuming Sara is the name, but that could be something different. They smell quite nice and I'd say unusual. What you're smelling is something I really like. It's when a product actually smells with its ingredients. Technically, you don't need to add anything. basically it's not fragranced additionally. No, however, I actually really like it because you see what you get. No, think it was my bad. I assumed it was a name, but it's actually just a description of what it is in Icelandic. think it's very good to have a product which smells already so you don't have to think out anything or you don't need to have this dilemma to put a fragrance or not to put a fragrance. Another company. I don't have anything to offer you to smell but I actually very like them. They're from a small Greek island called Syrups. It's not Cyprus. It's in Greece. And my favorite is this one. We are looking at Wigan Lemon Blossom Solid Body Butter. Those are all related words. If you imagine having a round soap, but instead of using it as a soap, you use it as a body butter. So is it melting? Yes. It on your skin and you could see it in my Instagram. So yeah, and we haven't said the name, by the way, from the company. It's called Aiegan. Egan Beauty, I'm not sure. Egan Beauty. It's named after the sea that is, you know. Yeah, and the symbol, like it's a song, it's a mountain, and this is... The world, yeah, beautiful. Yeah, I like the symbol, I like the people, really, really love family story. So again, when I asked like, it's another approach, when I asked like, how do you choose fragrances for your products? It's a very big thing. And they said like, oh, we are just having everything which is locally available. So products are available, packages available, designers available, smells available. So, We good old times when we didn't have internet. When we actually had to go to a guy who lives in a village near to you and say like, hey, so you're doing the, I don't know, the glass jars, I gotta buy jars for you. So I actually I'm so fascinated by this body butter that I will probably order it online for myself It's and you know like with the cream I just put a cream in your hands and then you start like doing what I'm doing right now like you're spreading it all over your body, but with this soap like It's it's really like it's hard because it's cold, but then your body starts to warm it and then it melts a little bit on your body. Not like the whole piece is melted. Yeah, because they would be not really comfortable and it would be probably all over your hands. Right, so what's coming up next? I see... The description of the teas, by the way. The first fragrance product I approached was not a fragrance or not a beauty product. It was Wilden or Wilden Herbals. A brand from Italy. And they have a very lovely selection of teas. Of course, our listeners will say like, oh, wow. But there is a difference. in the way you approach it, because you could have a flavor tea with artificial flavors or flavor tea, because you have components which give flavor. For instance, with the rose, I have personally a very lovely rose tea. well, it has natural rose in it. However, it does have also artificial flavors such as from lychee or something else to give some better idea, probably roundness and balance. But I would prefer to have a natural lychee and pay a little bit extra to get this taste. I got this. if you go and check your favorite tea, if it has anything like that, probably also, you know, even though it says like, it's just the leaves, there are plenty of things they added on top of them just to make it smell or taste in a particular way. couldn't say that it's bad, but I would, it's just my personal wish to have a natural lychee instead of the flavored lychee. Yeah, especially since you know can dry most of the things and this is how tea is created, you dry the leaves. Then you can dry the fruit that you want to add or whatever. Shall I read that? Yeah, it's called pre-cycle. So you guessed that. That's a tea that enables you to experience your menstrual cycle in a peaceful way. that sounds nice. To the natural properties of plants. And the plants are Ginger, Chest, C-H-A-S-T-E-3 and Yarrow. I don't know what are those plants to be honest, but if they're doing what they're promising, that sounds good. So technically they're approaching well-known problems with all-time solutions, which right now seem to be new solutions. Right, okay, so I assume that they have some proof that that was actually work or is it just, you know, anecdotal based from the history? That's the answer I'm gonna give. right. Let's go further. Probably two more brands that we'll talk about a little bit. A very interesting one called Paola or Gento. They're so lovely. You could see in my Instagram, I am just soaking in a bath. In a bath. On the booth. wow, mean for those who do not see the story but I'll try to explain it looks like you know these fancy white porcelain bathtubs that you see at the hotels like luxury hotels and then for some reason it's filled with black and yellow balls like you know like the the ball pits for kids but this one is just in a bath but it looks looks nice and I guess it's a nice experience I love the touch with it they put a towel next to it So the products are as I've said the bathtub is here for a reason because they have bath salts. I really like the way they adapted this kind of product for people who don't have baths. Technically could use it just as a scrub. Yeah, that looks nice and for the listeners that's just, you know, a sealed... The sealed paper bag with just salt in it. can rub it on yourself. Dead sea salt, white clay and almond oil. And a bunch of flowers. And those flowers are so lovely, those like blue flowers, it's like vasilok. Yeah, it's a cornflower. It says that. Cornflower and peach buds. So I guess it also smells nice. It is, it is. And what you see is just a package for the distribution, I suppose, but otherwise they have, of course, big jars and those are beautiful and like have different types of bath products. But I suppose they do have baths since they decided to develop these kind of products. And also they have, well, I asked what are the favorite smells. So, yeah. some sounds of opening. So, OOD. Yeah, that is like, I'm not sure if the Scandinavians are high on wood. but that would definitely be something to consider for the Middle Eastern. Yeah, but this is a very refined one. You remember we saw recently the wood exhibition in United Arab Emirates. This is... Yeah, those guys they prefer the heavy stuff. This is very light. Yeah, that's true. And again, it's a soy wax. I'm very happy to hear that a lot of producers are switching to waxes. Since for me it wasn't very weird when you could go to well-known brands and you still see that they are having petrochemical wax. I mean like... Seriously? Like... I mean we still don't know what are the effects of burning both the petrochemicals and natural ones, but I guess the petrochemicals do not sound nice at all. Open your windows if you do that. I mean... Yeah, just don't forget to ventilate your houses. However, who you want to go, don't go to Hüge. Yeah, there's something else we need to open right now. I'm curious what is that? I think I saw it says... Bomb? Vegan bomb. So this is the brand by Kraina. It's a Regen pond. Kraina probably the right way to pronounce it. crying, I guess. wait for it I see that it also has Helianthus and no seed oil in it, so... We need to know what is about Anus here. yeah, very lovely. And what I also like is that they have locals doing the stuff, doing the design, doing the packaging. For me it's just nice to have something very close to me to have communication with. I believe such a thing is like a soul. It's very difficult to get it. If you are not into that. Smells good. Yeah. So, well, thank you, thank you Tanya for sharing your thoughts about this, what looks like a fantastic event that I right now feel like I missed a lot. was a pleasure.

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